engine braking not enough - Kawasaki Teryx Forums: Kawasaki UTV Teryx Forum
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-19-2008, 09:02 AM Thread Starter
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engine braking not enough

Will installing different drive clutch of any after market clutch kit improve my downhill engine braking? The engine braking appears good for short down hill section but anything steep and long i have to be hard on the brake to keep this thing crawling. I'm at 20 hours now and my belt is at its max spec. Will tightening it help? Any other mods that can help this?
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-21-2008, 05:42 AM
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If the belt is loose, you may have to keep afoot on the gas pedal to keep the clutch engaged during down hills. Like you are describing, the braking works great for a few Teryx lengths then the clutch seems to disengage and you have to go to brakes only. If you hold your foot on the gas pedal enough to keep the clutch from disengaging it helps to stay slow without overusing the brakes.

What I am saying my not be 100% technically correct, but it definitely works for me to hold a little gas and keep the clutch engaged and the engine braking at its highest level. I crawl around at least 50% or more of the time and even yesterday was playing around on some steep down hills under engine braking.

As an experiment, try going down a steep hill and not touching the gas pedal. Once the clutch disengages it is brakes only. If you hold a slight amount of gas pedal, I think you will be surprised that the braking can be kept to its maximum level. IMHO How loose your belt is will determine how much gas pedal you have to hold to maintain maximum engine braking and clutch engagement on the belt and just how slow that is. When I changed my belt and took out the thin shim, I can use engine braking at a lower speed and amount of gas pedal without any bucking of the machine. When the belt started getting loose, I noticed the bucking under engine braking during the transition period of clutch engagement from disengagement. The old belt had thinner width in some spots due to uneven wear because I went ahead and ran it to loose for a while which I think further induced the bucking.

Hope this helps, it is a little hard to explain and I know this is a long post. I am no rocket scientist but I do ride my Teryx a lot and do most of my own maintenance.

Last edited by Magellan; 08-21-2008 at 06:59 AM.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-21-2008, 10:01 PM Thread Starter
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I adjusted my belt. I got rid of my shudder on acceleration and the shudder i had between decel and idle. Around the house the engine braking has always seem good from day 1but on the trails it a lot different. I'll find out wnen i get back out there. I tried giving it a little gas and it helps if a want to go approx 10mph. But im after 1-4 mph. Will clutch work help engine braking?
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-21-2008, 10:35 PM
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Ok, first post I've ever done in my life, hope I do it correct.

Here's your answer, the engine brake on the Teryx is controlled electronically, it is a product of engine rpm. An electronic seloniod moves a fork against the outer primary plate to force the sheve together and maintain belt engagement. After engine rpm drops below the value described electronically, the selonoid releases and the belt slips.

So, if engine rpm is above the value by either application of throttle or the unit is rolling down hill (engine braking) the belt is engaged. This is why you are riding along happy as can be going down hill engine braking then all the sudden you are freewheeling is the engine rpm dropped below value and the selonoid released and thus belt slippage.


This must happen or the belt being engaged all the time would not let the engine idle, the Rhino braking is different through a wet clutch and one way bearing so the belt is always tight and idle is allowed via wet clutch

Can it be adjusted, not recomended and way complicated, Kawi has 3 different clutch plates and 2 different special tools required just to set it up.

All I got , Out
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-22-2008, 06:25 AM
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Ok, I am going to be the smart [email protected]@ here, at that speed use the brake. As Helix explained a lot of guys disable the engine brake.

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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-22-2008, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djsinc1006 View Post
Ok, first post I've ever done in my life, hope I do it correct.

Here's your answer, the engine brake on the Teryx is controlled electronically, it is a product of engine rpm. An electronic seloniod moves a fork against the outer primary plate to force the sheve together and maintain belt engagement. After engine rpm drops below the value described electronically, the selonoid releases and the belt slips.

So, if engine rpm is above the value by either application of throttle or the unit is rolling down hill (engine braking) the belt is engaged. This is why you are riding along happy as can be going down hill engine braking then all the sudden you are freewheeling is the engine rpm dropped below value and the selonoid released and thus belt slippage.


This must happen or the belt being engaged all the time would not let the engine idle, the Rhino braking is different through a wet clutch and one way bearing so the belt is always tight and idle is allowed via wet clutch

Can it be adjusted, not recomended and way complicated, Kawi has 3 different clutch plates and 2 different special tools required just to set it up.

All I got , Out
Thank you very much. So that is exactly the reason for the behavior I described above. So I am keeping the belt from disengaging by holding a little throttle thus keeping the engine braking going it sounds like.

If you don't mind another question: If we get a clutch kit that engages at higher RPM, how would this affect our ability to go as slow as possible but keeping the engine braking in effect? Sorry to ask so many questions. I want the smoothness of the clutch kit, but I can't sacrifice slow handling I have fairly steep property and I don't want to get my wife hurt, she drives the Teryx a lot and is a little frightened by it sometimes.
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-14-2008, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Magellan View Post
So I am keeping the belt from disengaging by holding a little throttle thus keeping the engine braking going it sounds like.

If you don't mind another question: If we get a clutch kit that engages at higher RPM, how would this affect our ability to go as slow as possible but keeping the engine braking in effect? Sorry to ask so many questions. I want the smoothness of the clutch kit, but I can't sacrifice slow handling I have fairly steep property and I don't want to get my wife hurt, she drives the Teryx a lot and is a little frightened by it sometimes.
Sorry for the delay, I can't always get back to a forum.

Exactly correct, you are maintaining the minimum engine RPM via throttle input.

Raising the engagement RPM, won't affect the engine braking UNLESS the spring which works against the fly weights is part of the change which raises the engagement RPM and this spring over powers the mechanical limitations of the engine brake servo.

You can raise the stall speed (speed clutch engages, primary sheave clamps onto belt), but due to the higher kinetic energy of the engine @ engagement the clutch engagement will NOT be smoother, this results in more power delivered to wheels @ launch = jerky engagement (unless a Rhino, Teryx is bad additional jerk, just how it is can't change that, no wet clutch) scary jerky engagement in reverse, more wheel spin (especially on hills and wet slippery). If you are racing the car all of this can and will be used in some way to an advantage. This mod will compromise the drivability.

Dale @ Dalton Industries is very knowlegable, we are performing exaustive testing on their products and they do EXACTLY what he says they will.
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-15-2008, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djsinc1006 View Post
Sorry for the delay, I can't always get back to a forum.

Exactly correct, you are maintaining the minimum engine RPM via throttle input.

Raising the engagement RPM, won't affect the engine braking UNLESS the spring which works against the fly weights is part of the change which raises the engagement RPM and this spring over powers the mechanical limitations of the engine brake servo.

You can raise the stall speed (speed clutch engages, primary sheave clamps onto belt), but due to the higher kinetic energy of the engine @ engagement the clutch engagement will NOT be smoother, this results in more power delivered to wheels @ launch = jerky engagement (unless a Rhino, Teryx is bad additional jerk, just how it is can't change that, no wet clutch) scary jerky engagement in reverse, more wheel spin (especially on hills and wet slippery). If you are racing the car all of this can and will be used in some way to an advantage. This mod will compromise the drivability.

Dale @ Dalton Industries is very knowlegable, we are performing exaustive testing on their products and they do EXACTLY what he says they will.
VERY interesting, thank you. Looks like in my situation with my needs, I should probably skip the clutch. There are plenty of times in tight and steep property, that I need reverse to be very smooth engagement for instance. Thank you very much.

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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-15-2008, 02:18 PM
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i ride the gas a little if i have to or just use the BRAKES,lol!

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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-16-2008, 08:29 AM
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Hi Megellan. The kit comes with optional engagement spring for that reason. DJS is using the higher stalling spring for his application and it is more agressive for acceleration the way he wants it. and he is correct in what he is saying. However,with the other spring that comes in the clutch kit(the most popular actuall)...the AMBER colored one,the engagement is only slightly higher than stock.With the AMBER spring and the provided adjustable flyweights set up for your application it will indeed engage a slight bit higher,but only slightly,..and it is distinctly smoother in that application that the stock clutch . The engagement is slightly higher but because of the flyweight design it is actually smoother.
The optional orange /blue in the kit makes it distinctly more agressive,and would be too abrupt for your intended use from what you are saying you are doing and looking for.

The kebc system does work like DJS described and it is something that you will not really change with a clutch kit very much,as it is an electronic system that is inherent in the vehicle.

The engine braking effect,however, during the part when the thottler is lightly depressed to keep it engaged....it will be stronger in fact,as it does backshift quicker...so when you throttle it slightly to engage the belt,it stays shifted back to a lower ratio easier.

With the adjustable flyweights in this kit and the set up manual,there are tons of options to make the kit act differently for personal preferrence.
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