Almost a full report on 840 tuning............ - Kawasaki Teryx Forums: Kawasaki UTV Teryx Forum
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post #1 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-18-2010, 10:31 PM Thread Starter
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Almost a full report on 840 tuning............

I spent the last two weeks working on my own projects and it's sad to say but I haven't even got a 10th of the way through everything I want to do.

The good news is XChamp and I went to VForceJohn's to day for 9hrs on tuning. The bad news is we didn't finnish. I have been going for 20hrs right now so look for some more info in the morning,or maybe it will be afternoon before I get going again.
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post #2 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-19-2010, 05:13 AM
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Very LONG day and got it tuned pretty good, still need some lighter wieghts to get some more rpms, but it made quite a bit more hp than a standard bore on the same dyno with the same exhuast, carbs, and cdi.

08' Teryx LE, FST 840, Muzzys, VDI, Dalton, VFJ Roller, Thunderhawk Performance Race Cage, Bumpers, Door Bars and Bracing, Beard TSX Seats, 5pt. Crow Harness, 12" ITP Type 7 Beadlocks, GBC 8 ply Dirt Commanders, Pro Armor Skids, Team Green Plastic

08' Teryx, Maier Orange Plastic, Thuderhawk Performance 4 Seat Cage, Bumpers, Door Bars and Bracing, Beard TSX Seats, 4 pt. Harness, 14" Chrome Doughas Diablos w/GBC Grim Reapers, VDI, Dalton
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post #3 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-19-2010, 06:43 AM
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how does a person get contact or phone # for vforcejohn
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post #4 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-19-2010, 06:58 AM
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how does a person get contact or phone # for vforcejohn
vforcejohn.com

08' Teryx LE, FST 840, Muzzys, VDI, Dalton, VFJ Roller, Thunderhawk Performance Race Cage, Bumpers, Door Bars and Bracing, Beard TSX Seats, 5pt. Crow Harness, 12" ITP Type 7 Beadlocks, GBC 8 ply Dirt Commanders, Pro Armor Skids, Team Green Plastic

08' Teryx, Maier Orange Plastic, Thuderhawk Performance 4 Seat Cage, Bumpers, Door Bars and Bracing, Beard TSX Seats, 4 pt. Harness, 14" Chrome Doughas Diablos w/GBC Grim Reapers, VDI, Dalton
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post #5 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-19-2010, 08:49 AM Thread Starter
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This is going to take a while so I might do this in parts.

First off we went to Johns because we had a bad flat spot from 20 to 40mph right where you run through the woods at. I have not been able to do the testing on it my self for different reasons.Second VForceJohn has dynoed more Kawaski's high pervormance V-Twins then anyone in the country.Having said that the clutch he did before the Dirt Wheels article was the biggest problem,yet it did what it should have.What happen is he build us a roller clutch that was good for drag racing,but sucked in the woods. The way it worked was when you punched it,it would rev higher with the Dalton weights empty then a reg. stock clutch with the same set up.But if you run it up to 40mph and let off,then punched it again it wouldn't pull hard,it was flat. At first we where running the orange blue spring but the amber is what we should have been running.My understanding was wrong about the amber spring being in between the blue and the orange blue was only as far as the stall. The roller spider let it go to max shift out faster and rev higher with the same weights,but was crap for on and off the gas. The higher reving is what I didn't remember right. So the amber has a low stall,lower then the orange blue but not as low as the blue that I run in my GNCC stuff.But the amber will rev higher then the orange blue. The mistake we made is not testing the amber with the way the clutch was before going back to the stock spider to get the mid range punch back to see how high we would still make more hp.From the very start we were making more HP then I thought we would based on what I know other people dyno my 840 kits at with about the same mods, so I was happy about that,but unhappy about the flat part from 20 to 40mph. This confused me a bit when we modded the clutch back because we lost hp. The reason we lost is because it lowerd the rpms by 300 to 400. I have been wanting these thing to rev a little more then we were getting out of the Dalton clutch kits since we have been running them.My thinking was right and I agree with John,they need lighter weights on the dyno. We still have to test it in the real world,but for now it looks like the right way to go.However this can all change with bigger or heavier tires,sand vs dirt ect. ect.We didn't have the lighter weights and we ran out of daylight to test it on the ground.

Well that is part one of the testing,I'll come back with jetting and pipe set up.
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post #6 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-19-2010, 08:59 AM
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Mickey, we did end up running the amber with the roller clutch, i remembered that this morning, I dont rem. the out come on hp, but John posted on KR that it went up 200 rpms, but i think we still had the flat spot in the midrange, thats when john decided to put the stock spider back in it. This is what brought back the mid range. I believe it was at 8400 with the amber, up 200 rpm from the orange/blue with the roller. I beleive we were around 7800 with the stock spider but it hits like a freight train now in the mid range.

08' Teryx LE, FST 840, Muzzys, VDI, Dalton, VFJ Roller, Thunderhawk Performance Race Cage, Bumpers, Door Bars and Bracing, Beard TSX Seats, 5pt. Crow Harness, 12" ITP Type 7 Beadlocks, GBC 8 ply Dirt Commanders, Pro Armor Skids, Team Green Plastic

08' Teryx, Maier Orange Plastic, Thuderhawk Performance 4 Seat Cage, Bumpers, Door Bars and Bracing, Beard TSX Seats, 4 pt. Harness, 14" Chrome Doughas Diablos w/GBC Grim Reapers, VDI, Dalton
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post #7 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-19-2010, 10:03 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by xchamp View Post
Mickey, we did end up running the amber with the roller clutch, i remembered that this morning, I dont rem. the out come on hp, but John posted on KR that it went up 200 rpms, but i think we still had the flat spot in the midrange, thats when john decided to put the stock spider back in it. This is what brought back the mid range. I believe it was at 8400 with the amber, up 200 rpm from the orange/blue with the roller. I beleive we were around 7800 with the stock spider but it hits like a freight train now in the mid range.
Yes I stand corrected again. It didn't make anymore hp so I didn't remember it.Here is what John said about it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I did a ton of testing with the roller today on an 840 Teryx.

with the rollers, 70 rwhp. without them 68.

the rollers are very hard hitting out of the hole and near pulled the wheels off the ground on engagment even strapped down as hard as I could get it on the Dyno rollers.

the rollers and Dalton weights would rev out 8200 OR/BLUE-8400 AMBER rpm. the low end hit and engagment was WAY too hard. it engaged and revved out to 8200 in 1 second and stayed exactly there at that same RPM until 65 mph. with the orange blue in there it slammed closed like you just dumped a clutch at 6000 rpm the nlost some RPM down to 8100

stock spider it would onlu rev 7700 with the same exact setup.

here's the problem with the rollers. if you are not dragracing and trailriding. they are not trail friendly. the midrange hit causes the clutch to close all the way and shoot that belt to the top. even the 840 with 70-71 rwhp didn't have the power to overcome the weigh push. NOS would have been perfect. As it's a solid hit and power gain. but the motor pushed the clutch closed as the rollers move too freely. the 840 also needed alot lighter weights which we didn't have access to.

I should have tried a stiffer secondary with the rollers. that would certainly hold backshift more. but 8am-6pm on the dyno I was getting tired and hungry.

I learned some more today. 840's need lighter weights. rollers shift too fast and rejetting Teryx's 20 times SUCKS!!

back to the drawing board to work on better setup's. You can have holeshot power and great shiftout RPM. but it shifts out FAR too fast if you gun on it midrange.

John



Update: You are going to need to go back up with me in a few weeks,we have some more things to do after just talking with John.
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post #8 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-19-2010, 10:17 AM Thread Starter
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We have more clutching to do but we also have a problem to fix also with the stock carbs and plenum,but first here is what we found with the MUZZYS Pro pipe. The best power was made on this 840 was with the MUZZYS the way it came with the inserts in the rear of the pipes. We took the inserts out,lost power. We put some Super Trapp megs on without discs,lost power. With discs(17),lost power. We did not test with the screens (or spark arester)in because they were already tested in the STD bore of John's with my stage 2 cams and it only lost 1.5 hp. For some of you that need to run them and want it to be quiter you may lose 2 hp on a 840.I wish we had a std MUZZYS to test on it but I don't think there is a whole lot of difference between the two but the pro is so much better as far as the heat factor,it's worth going it for that reason. Based on what other's have dynoed my 840's at over the std bore kits with the std. MUZZYS the power was about the same.
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post #9 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-19-2010, 10:23 AM
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For what its worth, Dalton has says that there is a lighter weight teryx weight set. Based on VFJ, I asked Dalton to substitute it so that you could get below the stock teryx weight set (with no weight on it). Haven't got much time on it yet to see how it does with rpms etc. But it should provide adjustability for the 840 that's not as easily done with the stock dalton set up.

Note, I don't have the VFJ mod (couldn't afford it and the Dalton hardware).

Where did you end up on jetting...
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post #10 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-19-2010, 12:48 PM Thread Starter
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OK this is where things went weird. First off we have always had a richness in the mid range with the Dynojet/HW jet kit. We tride all kinds of stuff trying to keep those needles it it but ended up with stock needles with 2 shime under them to get the 840 a/f right. This is with #40 pilots both front and rear carbs. We had a straight 3 inch tube from the air box to the pelnum,gained 1.5 hp going back to the stocker that feeds the rear carb better with the "S" bend. When we still had the other needles in we were getting a rich poping out of it with 230 mains in the front and rear but it was still showing lean on the front cylinder.Here is what we found,we wnt back to the stock needles with 2 shims and everything was even front and back until we get to the mains. When we had the 230s still in both we switched the a/f gauge to the rear cylinder and that was where we were getting the rich poping.We ended up at a 240 in the front and a 215 in the rear.I have never seen anything like this before.It runs,starts and pulls like it should making 8hp more then our stage 2 cams in the std bore kit just like everyone else has shown,but to me this is not right. The front carb is getting more air then the rear at high rpm's.The motor is only making 4hp more then when we first started with 195's (I think) in both front and rear. 1.5 came from the S bend tube and 2 from the dynatek box over the VDI. We lot 8hp going from the 2nd setting to the 3rd on the Dynatek,so run it on the 2nd if you have one. Why we didn't gain much from the jetting is just crazzy unless it isn't showing up now because we are only reving to 7700 and it needs to be 8100.

The drive report today shows very little or no gain up the driveway test if any,but the performance on and off the gas is what it should be now with the clutch mods. After 9 hrs of testing this is all we got.The plenum is a problem and can be fixed with a bigger air cleaner and plenum to get more air to the rear carb. Will it make any real hp,don't know.We have lots more test to do but this is where we are at.

If you live in the west you most likely run the dynojet needles with 40 to 42 pilots 2.5 turns out and somewhere in the 210 to 230 range on the mains but you need to run the a/f gauge on both front and rear,no matter what part of the country.

Std bore kit guys will use the dyno jet needles with the 40 pilots 2 turns out and from 170 to 185 mains depending on the time of year.
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