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Discussion Starter #1
Well cleaned out the garage of some unwanted parts/tires etc. Now have some cash burning a hole in my pocket which is slated for the REX. Question is if you had to make a choice between MSD or Muzzy Pros what would you do? Currently motor is stock only minor upgrade is UNi with billet adaptor. I could do one not both for now. What's my best bang for the buck. I'd be interested to hear from some tuners as well on what they would choose.
 

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You gotta do the MSD first because it allows you to remove the speed limiter and change the fuel and timing maps. If you do just the Muzzy then you'll still just be limited to 51 or 52 MPH and possibly run your motor lean. To get the most out of your Muzzy, you need the MSD.
 

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You gotta do the MSD first because it allows you to remove the speed limiter and change the fuel and timing maps. If you do just the Muzzy then you'll still just be limited to 51 or 52 MPH and possibly run your motor lean. To get the most out of your Muzzy, you need the MSD.
I 100% agree with this and we have the MSD on sale right now
 

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The above is right, the Muzzy will give you alot more low to mid range power but you have no way to adjust the fuel even though it does not need alot, and you will get 10-14 mph by adding the msd, OH YEAH the Muzzy sounds bad as hell, if your not going to go with head work and bigger valves I would go with the standard Muzzy most reports show it will preform as good or better if you not going with the radical heads and I personally like the sound of the standard, not a big difference either way and you are going to LOVE both mods!!!
 

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I 100% agree with this and we have the MSD on sale right now
Todd,
Just ordered my MSD from you today!
Thanks for the dealio!
Which map did you say should work w/ my Yoshimura's?
Can't wait till next week to put it all together!!!
Thanks,
PT

:yahoo:

:93C_peelout[1]:
 

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Discussion Starter #6
The above is right, the Muzzy will give you alot more low to mid range power but you have no way to adjust the fuel even though it does not need alot, and you will get 10-14 mph by adding the msd, OH YEAH the Muzzy sounds bad as hell, if your not going to go with head work and bigger valves I would go with the standard Muzzy most reports show it will preform as good or better if you not going with the radical heads and I personally like the sound of the standard, not a big difference either way and you are going to LOVE both mods!!!
What is the difference if any between Pros vs standard? The way I see it why not just put the pros on right away and be ready when and if you end up going in the motor. Why go through the hassle of pulling off standard muzzy and replacing? I don't know. I just want to make smart purchases as I plan to keep this car for a while. From what I've heard sound wise either one is gonna have me riding around with a Hard one. LOL.

Todd can you PM me on your latest MSD pricing.

Thanks
 

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Its not a big difference in sound, its a personel prefrence, the main thing I was saying is that the dyno sheets I have seen show that on stock machines that the standard do as good in some ones better than the pro, even the 840 unless you do bigger valves and tbs or carbs the standard will do just as good, the differences are the size of the pipe and the amount of back pressure thats why the standard does a little better on a stock, it has a little more back pressure, but its not a big difference in performance or price so your probally right if you might be going big, just buy the pro and it will work on anything you do and it will be a very minimal difference on stock good or bad. The main thing is all of the new ones run underneath and don't melt your side cover like the original Standard Muzzy.
 

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Hey Nozzleweed, giver on the pro's after the msd for sure. The difference between pipes is indeed minimal on stock motor, but the pros are required for anything bigger. They are a bit louder though, but will definatley induce a (hard one). I would advise getting them coated though, cause I am assuming that you ride in muskeg like I do and it has a tendancy to smolder and burn on the pipes, so anything that helps keep the heat in the pipes is a plus. :beer2:
 

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Here's some good reading to explain the basics of exhaust systems. It was written w/ 4/6 cyl cars in mind, but the basic principles hold true for all 4 stroke engines.
Back when I raced quads, we had different headers and tunes for differnt race tracks, ie: short tight arena cross vs big flat track courses w/ monster sweepers.
We would tune to get more torque or more top end, depending. It was combination of carbs, headers, gearing, tires, etc.

If you are running a stock motor w/ high flow air filter and msd, then the smaller diameter pipes will give you that bottom end while opening up your top some. A large diameter pipe of equal length on the stocker will actually hurt your bottem end because of lack of intake flow and loss of scavenging.

On the converse, a bbk w/ larger intake and cams are gonna benefit from the large diameter head pipes because they flow higher. But, using a smaller diameter pipe may cause the system to perform less than optimal because it is too restrictive or the header length is not tuned correct.

As far as sound goes, if that's all you want, put a slip on and call it good. I've had exhausts that sound like complete shit, but they performed unbelievable. I've personally ran everything from DG, to Supertrapp, to Sparks Racing, to FMF, to FST exhausts on quads w/ different combos of head pipe diameter, length, and mufflers.

Check these pages out, hopefully they will explain the concept.

Exhaust header design

Building performance exhaust systems

http://tom.marshall.tripod.com/exhaust.html
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Here's some good reading to explain the basics of exhaust systems. It was written w/ 4/6 cyl cars in mind, but the basic principles hold true for all 4 stroke engines.
Back when I raced quads, we had different headers and tunes for differnt race tracks, ie: short tight arena cross vs big flat track courses w/ monster sweepers.
We would tune to get more torque or more top end, depending. It was combination of carbs, headers, gearing, tires, etc.

If you are running a stock motor w/ high flow air filter and msd, then the smaller diameter pipes will give you that bottom end while opening up your top some. A large diameter pipe of equal length on the stocker will actually hurt your bottem end because of lack of intake flow and loss of scavenging.

On the converse, a bbk w/ larger intake and cams are gonna benefit from the large diameter head pipes because they flow higher. But, using a smaller diameter pipe may cause the system to perform less than optimal because it is too restrictive or the header length is not tuned correct.

As far as sound goes, if that's all you want, put a slip on and call it good. I've had exhausts that sound like complete shit, but they performed unbelievable. I've personally ran everything from DG, to Supertrapp, to Sparks Racing, to FMF, to FST exhausts on quads w/ different combos of head pipe diameter, length, and mufflers.

Check these pages out, hopefully they will explain the concept.

Exhaust header design

Building performance exhaust systems

exhaust header design
Well I have to admit your the first that has sided on the regular Muzzy. How much would it sacrifice the bottom end. Most seem to think the impact would be minimal. As well I've heard people talk about using whisper cores to further reduce flow while still on a stock motor. I'm by no means a Teryx performance guru. Out of a 750$ upgrade my expectation would be performance and a good exhaust tone. From what I have read and seen the Muzzy seems to hit the nail on the head for both.

Second question would be if my choice is to go with Muzzy before the MSD is there any negative impact on the motor at all. I know the concesus seems to be MSD first. For myself just trying to lay the money down on the exhaust while its in my hand is a good idea. My wife seems to have the ability to funnel my quad cashflow into other areas LOL> I know noone else will agree with me here in public but you know it goes on behind the scenes. LOL>
 

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Second question would be if my choice is to go with Muzzy before the MSD is there any negative impact on the motor at all. I know the concesus seems to be MSD first.
Negative impact could potentially cause a lean burn situation, which can be good or bad. The bad is melting pistons, blowing head gaskets. The good is a reason to do a BBK. It could happen but doesn't mean it will, I would think it would all depend on how efficiently your motor is running now, altitude, temparature. It might be OK but it would be better to do the MSD first, I know its not as cool of an upgrade but it is a better plan of attack.:wave:
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Negative impact could potentially cause a lean burn situation, which can be good or bad. The bad is melting pistons, blowing head gaskets. The good is a reason to do a BBK. It could happen but doesn't mean it will, I would think it would all depend on how efficiently your motor is running now, altitude, temparature. It might be OK but it would be better to do the MSD first, I know its not as cool of an upgrade but it is a better plan of attack.:wave:
LOL blown motor=bad. Check.......So If I were to sell this to my banker I'm really in a situation where I "need" to do the MSD and Muzzy together.
 

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LOL blown motor=bad. Check.......So If I were to sell this to my banker I'm really in a situation where I "need" to do the MSD and Muzzy together.
Tell the "BANKER" its like the age old question, what come's first the chicken or the egg. You can't have one without the other. If that doesn't work tell her, I mean tell the "BANKER" you will do the dishes or something for her, I mean the "BANKER". :laugh:
 

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Here's some good reading to explain the basics of exhaust systems. It was written w/ 4/6 cyl cars in mind, but the basic principles hold true for all 4 stroke engines.
Back when I raced quads, we had different headers and tunes for differnt race tracks, ie: short tight arena cross vs big flat track courses w/ monster sweepers.
We would tune to get more torque or more top end, depending. It was combination of carbs, headers, gearing, tires, etc.

If you are running a stock motor w/ high flow air filter and msd, then the smaller diameter pipes will give you that bottom end while opening up your top some. A large diameter pipe of equal length on the stocker will actually hurt your bottem end because of lack of intake flow and loss of scavenging.

On the converse, a bbk w/ larger intake and cams are gonna benefit from the large diameter head pipes because they flow higher. But, using a smaller diameter pipe may cause the system to perform less than optimal because it is too restrictive or the header length is not tuned correct.

As far as sound goes, if that's all you want, put a slip on and call it good. I've had exhausts that sound like complete shit, but they performed unbelievable. I've personally ran everything from DG, to Supertrapp, to Sparks Racing, to FMF, to FST exhausts on quads w/ different combos of head pipe diameter, length, and mufflers.

Check these pages out, hopefully they will explain the concept.

Exhaust header design

Building performance exhaust systems

exhaust header design
Slip on is a waste of money. Buy a $30 tip and pull the stock baffle for within 1hp of a slip on. Power is made in the full exhaust in these Kawie Vtwins. Search all of Hunterworks dyno exhaust tests threads in late 2008 /2009 on this web site for more data. Use advances search person is Hunterworks and topic is exhaust and dyno will give you several threads on this.
 

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Well I have to admit your the first that has sided on the regular Muzzy. How much would it sacrifice the bottom end. Most seem to think the impact would be minimal. As well I've heard people talk about using whisper cores to further reduce flow while still on a stock motor. I'm by no means a Teryx performance guru. Out of a 750$ upgrade my expectation would be performance and a good exhaust tone. From what I have read and seen the Muzzy seems to hit the nail on the head for both.

Second question would be if my choice is to go with Muzzy before the MSD is there any negative impact on the motor at all. I know the concesus seems to be MSD first. For myself just trying to lay the money down on the exhaust while its in my hand is a good idea. My wife seems to have the ability to funnel my quad cashflow into other areas LOL> I know noone else will agree with me here in public but you know it goes on behind the scenes. LOL>
I'm by no means a "Teryx" performance guru myself, I just know what it takes to tune for different applications.
If you want a 10,000 rpm top end screamer or a 4000 rpm torque monster, they are entirely different builds. It all depends on what you want to do.
The tailpipe/muffler theory of dropping in a core to increase back pressure is not correct. The scavenging effect takes place in the head pipe. The optimal size (length & diameter) of the head pipe takes into account the size of the exhaust pulse (controlled by the top end flow and cylinder size) and speed of the pulse (rpm). This changes as rpms increase, so most pipes are designed to perform well over the entire range but being better at certain points, thus a "top end", "midrange", "low end" pipes.
You also have to factor in gearing... Yeah, it can be as complicated as you wanna make it out to be or as simple as bolting on a few goodies. Just depends on what level of performance you want & it's efficiency.

Personally, I would buy the MSD first.
I have a set of Yoshi's setting in my garage that I haven't installed yet simply because I don't wanna risk leaning out a brand new ride.
But not to worry, my MSD from Hunterworks should be arriving next week, then it is on! :D
As far as exhausts go, I'd prolly have a set of Muzzy's myself, but I got a heck of a deal on the Yoshi's, so I'm gonna start w/ them.
 

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Slip on is a waste of money. Buy a $30 tip and pull the stock baffle for within 1hp of a slip on. Power is made in the full exhaust in these Kawie Vtwins. Search all of Hunterworks dyno exhaust tests threads in late 2008 /2009 on this web site for more data. Use advances search person is Hunterworks and topic is exhaust and dyno will give you several threads on this.
Ummm, that's what I was saying... If all anybody wants is a good sound, then don't spend the $$$ on a full exhaust. Just because something is pleasing to the ear, doesn't make it perform...
 

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Pro VS Std. our dyno says the pro makes a slight bit more HP than the standard but our butt dyno does not know the difference.

Someone somewhere else did some extensive testing on this and stated the std was the way to go with a stock engine and I sure can see it.

No matter which way you go your butt dyno is not going to know the difference.
 

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Pro VS Std. our dyno says the pro makes a slight bit more HP than the standard but our butt dyno does not know the difference.

Someone somewhere else did some extensive testing on this and stated the std was the way to go with a stock engine and I sure can see it.

No matter which way you go your butt dyno is not going to know the difference.
LOL! Butt dyno... :laugh:
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Fact is if you can't feel the difference in something you did in your butt then you wasted your money
LOL Todd are you channelling my wife....................She thinks the whole SxS thing is a waste of money and she is about to kick me in the butt dyno.
 
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