[VFORCEJOHN]

well thanks for the words guys. I don't get over to these forums as much as I should but I can't believe some of the things I read that have been posted here about my work. Flattered about the good/positive comments. feeling Insulted from the bad/misleading. I had no Idea I was mentioned as much as I was over here. I try to keep a quiet low profile and stick to emails and calls.

Todd. You say you tested my clutch on a brute force and it just didn't work Can you tell me HOW it didn't work??. This goes to your customer and to everyone...If ANYONE has a clutch of mine and it is not working correct or like you think it should. give me their name and number, send me an email, call me, text me, pm me. I'll work with them until it is performing at the best possible ability. it's FREE. you don't like your springs. I have many, I will work with you and get it right. too aggressive, not aggressive enough. whatever. I can do anything with these units. I'll back you up with whatever, whenever.

One of the funniest ones was Todd downing my larger injectors. HAHA. Just so happens, I sold Todd His first set of large injectors. These were one of the first sets of injectors I had proved to work in these machines. 1 week later, he was selling the same exact thing. I knew he was going to do it, I could just have easily told him the injectors are a stock kawasaki part and I got them right from them from a 2004 zx 636 rocketbike. I just had to make him work for it. I could smell a skunk way before I even heard it.

Don't even get me started on MSD programming. For those that bought his "custom programmed stuff" well alot of them made it to my dyno, and I was not impressed. Go ahead, try this for those that have his mapping, plug it in a laptop and look at the timing menu (advance). he left all the important values STOCK and most all set to ZERO!! Where the hell is the custom programming? Same with the 2008 programmable dyna's. custom programmed my azz. they are stock dyna settings. If you are a customer of mine, I can email you MY mapping to compare. I know you won't be running his for very long once you do. did I mention it's FREE power. This goes for his "custom Dyna CDI as well. I'll remap them for 2-3 more RWHP. It's also FREE.

Then the icing on the cake was him telling me that he is going to start modding clutches too. right after he tells me in the previous PM that it doesn't work. What a charachter.

So don't get all caught up in sales tactics, bad mojo and he said/she said, just do your research and ask around who has what and how it works... You'll figure it out. Have a good weekend everyone.

John

 

[xchamp]

Thanks for clearing that up John, hated to see people be misinformed. I have dealt with Dale of Dalton and im running his clutch kits in both of my teryx's and with good results. Super nice guy with a great product. I also have VFJ's clutch mod and will be trying his wieghts and springs in my 840 in the next week. John has dynoed my teryx and built me clutchs for my quads in the past with great success. Nothing but good words for both people and work they do with clutches on quads and teryx's. But unlike Todd (Hunterworks) im open minded and not trying to make money off of one of the suppliers products to skew my judgement. Seems Todd had this same problem with Mickey a few months ago on here with his 840 kits and started bad mouthing them. Once again Todd did not sell Four Stroke Tech products and told lies about the product. Fact is mickey has sold over 500 840 kits with zero issues with the products themselves. I quess Todd just has a very difficult time seeing other vendors having success in the Teryx market! All three guys sell products, is just that Mickey and John sell alot more of their own product/service than someone else's product! These two guys have been modding and improving these V-twins since they came out in 2002! Todd seems to do a good job on selling parts from other suppliers and from what ive read his customers are happy, but why he has to come on here and badmouth and flat out lie about the inovators of this engine is beyond me and in my opinion makes him look bad!!

 

[sconym]

i did a lot of research on clutches over the past month or so in preperation of buying one. i ended up going with vforce johns stage 3 kit with his secondary springs and weights. john was great on the pre sales call, putting up with a bunch of my questions. the turn around on the clutch was incredible same day service! john gave me all the tips needed for the reinstall. after install, i wasnt getting the results that i thought i should have. thought that maybe i had a clutching problem. called john, explained my concerns, and it turns out that he helped me fix another problem that i had with the teryx.....jetting. long story short, the clutch is amazing all the way through the power range. pulls hard, mid range is awesome, and once jetting gets finalized....top end will be up too. thanks a bunch john! completely happy with my setup..... scott in vegas!

 

[Hunterworks]

Yes I do get myself in a fix sometimes, do not lie though.

I do not sell the same injector John has, his is larger. #1 lie


Let me explain prices. I will use the MSD as the example. If your able to buy them as a distributor you are supposed to sell them to dealers and they are to sell them to customers. If the distributor sells them to the customer at dealer prices cause he can, he cuts all the dealers out and at some point they stop selling and the distributor can't sell enough by himself to support MSD so they have to stop making them.

MSD is not happy about VFJ selling them at the lower prices. #2 lie

As a matter of fact, the top person in the powersports at MSD did not know who VFJ was and swore he was not selling to him, he stated he must have gotten his from Mickey and he was not happy about the pricing either.

Muzzy has a policy about pricing as well, you are not supposed to get on forums or advertise on your site lower prices than retail. Everyone fudges on this one way or another but you not suppose to be blatant about it. Example: I am not suppose to get on here and tell everyone I sell them for $600 when they are supposed to be $800. Muzzy is not happy either.

That makes for #3 lie

I only said the VFJ clutch would not out perform a properly set up Dalton and would be fine for top end.

Lie #4

The important values in the mapping left zero? Hmm if it was left zero it was because the engine does not run in those areas so no need in changing them.
Lie#5

Customs maps on the Dynatek? We change the stock timing curve to ours, stock timing does not have 34 degrees of timing. Maybe VFJ does not know what to look at.

That was lie #6

Todd claims he pays $225 for a MSD, I pay more I assure you.

That is lie #7

Thunder products does in fact make clutch weights and they do have a patent along with Dalton on any type of screw in or own weights. I only passed on what they told me.

We are up to #8 lie now

Guys I will let our reputation speak for itself. You won't find people talking bad about anything we do except other vendors.

As for the clutching, seems like every time someone mentions clutching on Kawieriders the next word is VFJ which is fine but there are other options out there depending on what you want to do that might serve you better and be less expensive. Why spend $350 on machining and another $250 their clutch kit when you could spend $325 on a dalton and accomplish what you wanted which was getting more power to the ground faster than stock.

I am upset about pricing because I do in fact sell to dealers and they would get upset at me if I sell products to the customer for the same thing I sell to them for. We do sell in packages in which you do in fact get these items lower without separating out the MSD or what ever.

If you go back from the start of this thread, I have not told a lie nor have I bad mouthed anyone and sure did not personally like VFJ did me.

UTV's and some ATV's is all we do, it is not a side line like VFJ where they are a truck repair shop or tire shop that his dad owns and started. We are not trying to make a few extra bucks at our side business, we are trying to make a living at our only business and if you look at my bank statement you will see we are only surviving. If I sold something that was not my main business I could sell it cheap too cause it would be just money in my pocket not paying the bills. His dad's truck shop pays all the bills money from ATV and UTV stuff is just money in his pocket. I have overheard cause this is my main business so of course I am not happy about someone selling what I sell at low prices cause they don't need the money to keep the doors open.

We are here for two people, you first and me. The best transaction is one where the customer gets a product at a fair price with great service and the seller makes a profit so he can eat and serve another guy another day.

I'm not getting into anymore mud slinging and I will not personally attack John past this post, I felt I must say what I needed to, to bring things to light.

Trust me one thing I do NOT do is lie!! If it is a untruth then I thought it was true when I said it.

 

[PetesZ400]

Who knew there was so much action going on in the Southeast Region thread?opcorn:

 

[sleepy23]

Who knew there was so much action going on in the Southeast Region thread?opcorn:

yeppers, all from me trying to simply ask a question about a good close motor builder.

 

[bigdaddy]

Sleepy I think when you have Todd and Mickey mention in the same forum that is like building a fire beside a bucket of gas it usually turns into a big deal as you can see everybody is very pasionate about what they believe in and I guess there is nothing wrong with someone standing up for what they believe in.

 

[KYWILDCATS74]

Sleepy I think when you have Todd and Mickey mention in the same forum that is like building a fire beside a bucket of gas it usually turns into a big deal as you can see everybody is very pasionate about what they believe in and I guess there is nothing wrong with someone standing up for what they believe in.

What about the people who believe in space aliens, 911 conspiracy's, and commander 1000x faster than a 840.. :cookoo[1]:..JK..

 

[bigdaddy]

What about the people who believe in space aliens, 911 conspiracy's, and commander 1000x faster than a 840.. :cookoo[1]:..JK..

Boy you can just watch this forum and when somebody ask a question about a engine kit standard bore ? 840 ? Fundy ? FST ? Dalton ? V-force John ? you can get your pop corn because the sparks are fixxin to fly, and the post numbers are going up, you know its kind of boring when nobody disagrees :laugh::laugh: What about my LSU Tigers beating Alabama and their old coach, now if Alabama will beat Auburn that will really shake up the BCS since you were talking about a conspiracy, that is if any of you guys keep up with NCAA football. :laugh:

 

[BUYRITE01]

Lets look at the facts allot of people love VFJ clutch mod. Why because it works and he is not trying to make a home run on everything he sell. Now Todd just built a new shop and he races his sxs allot that takes money but Todd dont want to but up his money for merchandise he want to drop ship from the supplier no risk no reward vfj orders 20 msd boxes at one time getting a better price so them pases they saving on to us.

 

[Hunterworks]

Lets look at the facts allot of people love VFJ clutch mod. Why because it works and he is not trying to make a home run on everything he sell. Now Todd just built a new shop and he races his sxs allot that takes money but Todd dont want to but up his money for merchandise he want to drop ship from the supplier no risk no reward vfj orders 20 msd boxes at one time getting a better price so them pases they saving on to us.

Not a whole lot of this accurate.

I have not raced in a while, too expensive. Gonna race next weekend cause Discovery gave me a 800 to race. Think I raced five times this year at about $500 a weekend.


The shop is not new, it is two years old and the payment is barely over what rent was.

We are #2 maybe #3 in sales at MSD and we ship them in here unless we are out and a guy is in a hurry.

I also pay the lowest rate that I am aware of but have a responsibility to the dealers we sell to. Very bad business to undercut them.

Not making a homerun on them? If you can get a part in and back out in one day and you charge $350 for about a hours work maybe two, sounds like a homerun to me. At Hunterworks shop you get 5.8 hours for $350

Again I didn't say it was not a good thing to do, just not the only thing to do.

 

[PetesZ400]

Boy you can just watch this forum and when somebody ask a question about a engine kit standard bore ? 840 ? Fundy ? FST ? Dalton ? V-force John ? you can get your pop corn because the sparks are fixxin to fly, and the post numbers are going up, you know its kind of boring when nobody disagrees :laugh::laugh: What about my LSU Tigers beating Alabama and their old coach, now if Alabama will beat Auburn that will really shake up the BCS since you were talking about a conspiracy, that is if any of you guys keep up with NCAA football. :laugh:

I'm a USC Trojan fan and feeling a little down this year. I hate the BCS, so I'm hoping that by some miracle TCU plays Boise State (both great programs) for the Championship.

 

[bigdaddy]

I'm a USC Trojan fan and feeling a little down this year. I hate the BCS, so I'm hoping that by some miracle TCU plays Boise State (both great programs) for the Championship.

I too hate the BCS, I am in favor of a playoff system, there is plenty of time they have so much of a break at the end of the season before the Bowl games, take the top 8-10 teams and let them get at it, NCAA football is about the only people in the world that don't have a play off. nothing fair about the BCS just look at all the polls nobody agrees, only fair way is head to head. Oh wello sorry about getting side tracked on football I will let this thread go back to the fueding that everybody probally like better than my worthless knowledge about football. :laugh::laugh:

 

[BUYRITE01]

OK Todd 8 races at 500 = 4 thousand dollars but wait cost of sxs? built motor? tires? shocks? trailer to haul sxs? spare parts and tools? total cost to race around 30 thousand dollars? Now back to the msd box sell 20 boxes and make 50 per box = 1000 dollars or sell 10 boxes for 100 dollars per box = 1000 dollars? Both dealers made the same amount of money but one gained 20 customer and you gained 10?

 

[KYWILDCATS74]

I too hate the BCS, I am in favor of a playoff system, there is plenty of time they have so much of a break at the end of the season before the Bowl games, take the top 8-10 teams and let them get at it, NCAA football is about the only people in the world that don't have a play off. nothing fair about the BCS just look at all the polls nobody agrees, only fair way is head to head. Oh wello sorry about getting side tracked on football I will let this thread go back to the fueding that everybody probally like better than my worthless knowledge about football. :laugh::laugh:

I love NCAA football , I actually like it better than th NFL. I was also glad to see Les Miles pull out his cahoonas again (going for it on 4th down & fake punt) and beat Bama. My Wildcats just frustrate me in football:sad2[1]: So you can see why I am stoked about Basketball season

 

[Hunterworks]

WE had a tough time yesterday on the LSU VS AL game. I like both, Hunter is a AL fan for sure and girlfriend is a LSU fan.

I liked pro ball better until I went to a LSU game this year, now I find NFL lacking. I think it is the band!!

I am glad LSU won though.

 

[sleepy23]

OK Todd 8 races at 500 = 4 thousand dollars but wait cost of sxs? built motor? tires? shocks? trailer to haul sxs? spare parts and tools? total cost to race around 30 thousand dollars? Now back to the msd box sell 20 boxes and make 50 per box = 1000 dollars or sell 10 boxes for 100 dollars per box = 1000 dollars? Both dealers made the same amount of money but one gained 20 customer and you gained 10?

Dude, let it freakin go!!!! I started this thread and you can believe I don't give a CRAP. Its like this, Todd has been nothing but helpful, FST was really awesome recently, VFJ was good although the work didn't quite provide what I expected. No vendor will ever meet every persons expectations..

 

[helix]

First off I'm going to say sorry for barging in here.

Thing is. I don't have a problem with Todd. I could care less what he does, sells, recomends. it's his business. When you make up Bull Crap lies Especially concerning me, it's going to come back and bite you.

Like we all see and know, Todd at HW likes to promote the products he sells as the best and everyone elses stuff is just not comparable. The fact is... He obviously hasn't done that much testing and tuning to back up his claims. I've been a dalton supplier before he even knew dalton or these kawy V-twins existed. They certainly work and have their place, but they are just too heavy of a weight for the Teryx, what's the point of having an adjustable weight you have to run empty??? Especially when modded. this is why they have since lightened up the weights, but even that doesn't hold the rpm, they steady climb rpmn during shiftout due to low tip mass. It wasn't all that long ago the owner of Dalton industries, Dale, was asking me to allow him make my weights and billet faceplates for my mods, I opted to do it all myself so I programmed my CNC and made my prototypes. near 10 sets of different curves mass and weights.

This isn't anything new to me... Todd did this to me not even 3 weeks ago when I started selling MSD's cheaper than he does. He called MSD (autotronics) and complained to them that I was under cutting him when "he claims he pays just 215 for a MSD box" from them!!! He talked to them and wanted them to stop me from selling them. They laughed about as much as I did saying they can't make them as fast as they need to due to the demand. There's a thing about making a profit and taking someone's pockets.

Same with Muzzys exhaust. He had to complain to them that I sell them for way less than he does. so I simply took down my prices to conform to their pricing policy (a policy TODD had encouraged them make up). but that didn't stop the sales. and Muzzy said they could care less, so long as I don't put the price up on my site.

Same with the Clutch kits. I can't see charging 300 + dollars for bolt in weights and springs AKA clutch kit. that's why I make my own, I charge 100.00 less for my kits than the kits he sells and they hands down work better. even my machining without changing weights is still cheaper and offers more of everything vs a bolt in setup.

With me, it's not about making a buck. It's about saving a buck (especially your's) and getting the performance you paid for. I was once a consumer who bought into all the magazine articles and products boasted as parts you "need to have" only to spend 1000's and be dissappointed in what I got. This is why back in 1997 I bought my first Dynojet dyno and went to tuning school. I needed answers, and that gave it to me. since then I have bought 5 different dynojet dyno's (248, 225, 178,188, and a 250) and they have all served me very well and been consistant with eachother.

I really hate to come on here and piss and moan. So I will leave judgment in the hands of you forum goers. Compare prices, performance, gains and losses, and most of all EXPERIENCE. You want that Teryx to be fast, reliable and spend less. You know who to look up.


Sorry for the rant, now back to your normal discussion.



John

Well,
I was away and was asked to have a look at this.We have had tons of great feedback since the day this clutch kit was released . This kit has been used and tested not only by us,but many other shops as well:

It has been used in magazine articles with great reviews,..it has been tested and used by Kawasaki USA and is listed as a Genuine Kawasaki Accessory with Kawasaki part numbers and many of the kits are sold that way through Kawasaki dealers...with great results.

...but not only that,it was also tested back in 2008 by VFORCEJOHN...
,,....here is what he said(posted actually) on this forum:



I installed the Kit in a Teryx. I ended up using the Dalton Or/Blue, 1 Screw in the weights and 2 light rivets and 2 of the heavier rivets. Stage 3 Teryx Spidermod and KEBC removal.

I dyno'd it about 30 times. it still had the stock exhaust. it brought the low end up massively. we used the stock 26 Maxxis Tires it came with

We ended up with 40.4 rwhp with stock exhaust and the endcap removed jetted 148-150. it was 35-36 rwhp 100% stock.

With my Brother sitting in the back it had no problem wheeling the machine. as when stock we could have had 5 people in the back and it would barely pop off the ground.

with no one in the back it would spin the tires for about 5 feet.

We couldn't tell top speed as it didn't have a Speedo. but I would suspect about 62-64 mph. It topped out at 58 100% stock on the dyno really pushing it to get there. and it went 69 mph with the cut clutch and the Dalton kit. the redline was hit at 7900-8000 rpm which I thought was a bit low.

the kit worked.

John



..Of course this was before VFJ had his own stuff.....

our weights in the kit are still the same (same ones that were tested by ALL these people above),..we have alternate ones that are described very well on our website for some race applications only with longer cams,etc...but has nothing to do with stock Teryx....

My point is this,
I see no need for slandering my products,myself,or my company to try to sell your products John. If you think our price is too high,great,that is your opinion,...if you have a problem with Todd at Hunterworks,that is not our problem,..if you want to sell your product,then sell it.

...but there are all kinds of real world "he said-she said" experiences out there with clutching from different companies I don't get on the net saying your stuff is no good,it is all wrong..."buy from me" ,..or any of that...so sell your products on their own merits and don't resort to this type of thing.

Dalton Industries.

 

[KYWILDCATS74]

Both kits are great. I ride with a 840 with Dalton & mine has Vjohns. The Vjohn did slightly better in testing But not enough for the Dalton owner to sell his and buy Vjohns. Look this was all started because somebody offered a strong opinion about one product & knocked the other. I never knocked the Dalton or did I give a opinion. Just something we felt like testing. So all I can say is CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG:laugh:

 

[pit dog]

I remember whem john was doing the standard bore on his car. (u-tube vid ) Talking about the dalton kit would not do right. Shortly after he started working on his kit.Nothing arong with your kit ,but I belive it is not the cream of the crop. ( my opion my resurch )And with out a doupt 325 kit & 175 od plate is way to much money. But to you all I hope you all go that way. it will give me the ege in the woods. And todd is a good guy, does a lot . But he also is a high retail vendor. Hey guss what I am not going to makea dime off of the teryx. Built my 20 k car for about 14 k. Looking for deals and my own labor. And yes I have a VFJ clutch,and it rocks. And If you don't like what you got john will tweek it for you free. bend over bakward to help any of his coustmers. HEY THERE IS A RECESSION GOING ON. And sleepy get your car dialed in you will love it. Or call VFJ let him know what you don't like.